See how ridiculous that suddenly sounds when you change the context?

I used to be a 90% vegan person myself, for two solid years, in fact, before becoming vegan. I have no problem with you NOT being vegan. All I’m asking you to do is please stop confusing the rest of the world about what veganism really is.

Please stop lying to yourself and the world, either by becoming a vegan in truth, or by calling yourself “a vegan-friendly omnivore.”

That will make everyone happy and this debate will go away.
The argument against drinking milk holds also against honey. Bees don’t collect it for humans. It is for their little ones. How much hard work those tiny things need to put in to collect a jar of honey.

And yes, occasionally speeding and going over the limit still breaks the law even if you don’t get a ticket.

I see your point about the pizza. If you pretty much are a vegan, but then have one slice of pizza, suddenly changing the whole definition of the way you eat seems extreme.

I worry for myself about being too casual and making exceptions because it is hard to be Vegan right where I am and it would be easy to get lazy about it and start making a lot of exceptions, but also I try my best not to because then why am I reading all of the damn labels all of the time and doing all of the other stuff?

There are local farms that grow fruit that do not harm bugs, no?
And I don’t know about bugs, but honey seems like a deliberate, direct swipe at them.

I take back anything I have said about driving. From what I understand driving outside of NY (and Vermont, really) is much different. lol

Enjoying your insightful comments. I like the point about not earning the title “vegan” — However, we’ve put ourselves out there as “Vegan Bits” and so we have to have some kind of definition for ourselves since we are often challenged on our beliefs.

As for the insects. Yes, all the insects I’ve personally come across seem to have an interest in staying alive. However, I’m going to actively kill mosquitoes and termites. And I’m going to passively kill many insects driving, or simply living my life and that makes it kind of hard to put the honey bee aside and say it is wrong to eat honey. Also, as you point out, it doesn’t appear that the bees are particularly bothered by most honey gathering efforts. And the two bee keepers I know personally tell me bee keeping is fairly innocuous.

Many people make that same argument. And I’ve replied to that point above. Basically, it’s your prerogative. Jane and I have spent time considering this and have concluded that we will continue to consume honey. You are, of course, entitled to do as you feel.

You can decide for yourself if that is okay or not, but don’t pretend speeding is legal or eating pizza is okay for a Vegan.

Since honey is gotten in ways as to agitate and disturb the bees, it is not Vegan in my book. Maybe you should say you are vegetarian and just eat your sandwich and enjoy it.

I do agree that insects are creatures with a personal interest in staying alive and avoiding pain and I don’t want to interfere with that simply for bannana-honey sandwich, but from what I have seen of the beekeeping in my area I don’t think my sandwich is in conflict with their interests.

Pacifism does not make so much sense to me.
No one is happy for something like war and violence and all of that except for crazy people.

On the other hand I had a roommate some years ago, her boyfriend was being violent with her, if I had not interceded and helped her, if I was worried more about some idea of pacifism, how could I have lived with myself?